Keep up the excellent work. The first night of commenting was fantastic! I especially loved how you answered each other's questions. So be sure to check back if you do post a question/confusion as the answer might well show up from a peer. Otherwise, we'll try to address questions in class.
For this post, I'd like you to comment on one moment from the play, but for your second comment tell me about where you would set your version of Twelfth Night. You are aware of the major action and you have some serious details about the main players. Now you just have to put all of this action and all of these people somewhere in time and space. Where? When? Be creative. Have fun.
22 comments:
My favorite part of scene 5 came very early on page 14 Lines 37-47 when Feste is speaking to Olivia.
Throughout the whole entire time in which he is talking to Olivia he speaks in metaphors in a language in which i was extremely impressed by. For example he says "Anything that's mended is but patched: virtue that transgresses is but patched with sin, and sin that amends is but patched with virtue". He is defending himself in the greatest manner. The tone in which Feste speaks is one of elegance and he has this tone or attitude in which he does not fear Olivia. He is trying to prove to her that he can do what is necessary and that her claims are not true. Feste is showing that he will not stand down and that if his argument is not believed, who cares take him away for all he cares. This was one of my favorite passages of the whole play so far and also the most meaningful.
In act 1 scene 5 the references to drunkenness really caught my eye. Like Eric quoted, In line 37 Feste begins a small monologue talking about drunkenness. He talks about how drinking affects different men in different ways, and says,
"Anything that's mended is but patched: virtue that transgresses is but patched with sin, and sin that amends is but patched with virtue."
Despite being a "fool", Feste actually has a somewhat deep insight into how people go about fixing things, namely themselves. I agree with Eric because Feste demonstrates how he won't be excused and proves his eloquence.
Similarly, in line 121, Olivia asks Feste about the characteristics of a drunken man. Feste replies by saying,
"Like a drowned man, a fool, and a madman: one draught above heat makes him a fool, the second mads him, and a third drowns him."
While he is clearly referring to the drunken state Sir Toby is in, it is also a reference to how indulgent things are good in moderation, such as alcohol. Both Olivia and Orsino would do well from this advice, because each indulge their whims and every emotion.
I also think that 12th night needs to be set in Greece. I don't want it to be too parallel to today's world, and a botched sail across the Mediterranean could result in a landing in Greece. Olivia and Orsino should live in vast villas that overlook a cliff, and Viola and the Captain should land on a beach directly underneath these.
The last four lines of this Scene were my favorite:
"I do I know not what, and fear to find
Mine eye too great a flatterer for my mind.
Fate, show thy force; ourselves we do not owe.
What is decreed, must be: and be this so."
Not only do I think the couplets sound pretty, I like how much is going on in these lines. It fascinates me how fast Olivia realizes her attraction to Viola, accepts that fate is virtually in control, and fears that very fact that we do not control our own bodies. While these words seem slightly hopeless, she nonetheless seems hopeful that Viola will return and the happenings of that visit will be positive.
I think of this play as being set in the 15 or 1600s in an era of minimal technology. In the city there would be two large mansions, or villas as Emily said, at opposite ends of the city. One would be Olivia's and one would be Orsino's. She might have a caged bird in her room for entertainment. That sort of entertainment embodies the time frame I imagine.
One of my favorite aspects of Scene 5 is the subtle methods Shakespeare uses to convey Olivia's status. In line 35, "Go to, y'are a dry fool." and in line 154 "Give me my veil: come, throw it o'er my face." Shakespeare uses contractions that when read, simply exude status. After reading both of those lines multiple times, they began to ooze status and class and I can see them being delivered in an incredibly spiteful, condescending tone. Once again, another great frame for a character.
Also, as I think Dashon pointed out the first time, this scene also ends in a pair of rhymes.
I would set my version of Twelfth Night in a combination of The Hamptons and Princeton University. There's this whole illusion to how rich all of the characters are, so I feel like setting it there helps exemplify that fact. To help provide some context, here's a character list.
All scene's at Orsino's "Palace" would occur in a library/study at the University. Scene's at Olivia's would be at her house.
Orsino: Old, ranting Professor Emeritus of Linguistics at Princeton, has a house in the Hamptons.
Viola: Crashes her father's yacht onto a beach in the Hamptons (Illyria.) Goes to Princeton as a grad student, studies under Orsino.
Olivia: Very rich, heiress to some unknown fortune, living in the Hamptons.
Malvolio: Her actual butler.
Toby: Her uncle who lives in the guest house.
Sir Andrew: Person who actually pays the rent for the guest house.
Sebastian: Washes up in some other part of the Hamptons.
Antonio: Repairman working on one of the houses out there, finds Sebastian.
page 15, lines 59-64
Similar to what Emily and Eric talked about, I found it really interesting that Feste, even though he is supposed to be Olivia's "official fool", is actually a really deep and clever character. On page 15 he catches Olivia in her own logic. When he asks her why she mourns, she responds:
"Good fool, for my brother's death".
Feste- I think his soul is in hell, madonna.
Olivia- I know his sould is in heaven, fool.
Feste- The more fool, madonna, to mourn for your brother's soul, being in heaven. Take away the fool, gentlemen.
Also, the description of Feste in the front of the book says he "interprets the characters and seems to comment on the action rather than participating in it"
This reminded me of our discussion today about the title "What You Will", and how several people felt that it was refering to the characters interpretation of each other. Even though Feste doesn't seem to be one of the MOST important characters, he really seems to embody that title.
Where I picture this play taking place is in Italy around the renaissance period, in a busy city like Rome or Florence. Both Olivia's and Orsino's homes would look a lot like the Catholic churches with a lot of gold and paintings all over the walls and ceilings. Orsino's home could be completely over the top with the gold and artwork to show that up until now, he has been able to get whatever he wants. Viola would have had to travel all the way to the city after being shipwrecked which would emphasize her desire to be with Orsino.
It appears to me that a lot of people have commented about the surprising intelligence that comes from Feste, Olivia's jester. I too share the same interest in his cleverness and wit because, for the most part, what he says in the play is very relevant to who he is addressing. I found that his lines are littered with many epigrams and clever remaks, that if read slowly, shed real insight to life. No joke. In my opinion, his view of the world is fascinating.
For example, in scene 5, lines 31-32 Feste brilliantly distinguishes the grand difference of being a "witty fool" or a "foolish wit." I found this to be a exceedingly clever line.
This scene should be set in the Balearic Islands off of the coast of Spain because of its grand splendor and beauty. In my opinion, to capture the beauty of Shakespeare, one needs to have a equally fitting scenery. Not only would these islands accomplish this, they would also be a fitting place for the ship reck to occur.
The era, as many people have mentioned, should be before great technological advances made travel easy. So around the fifteenth century.
Act 1, Scene 5, Line unknown because my book is in the mail from Amazon so I am using the library's copy that has no lines, but it is when Olivia is telling Malvolio to send Viola away...
"I am sick, or not at home; what you will, to dismiss it."
This line was particularly interesting to me because of the discussion regarding the title of the book that we had on Monday. In this dialogue we see Olivia's exasperation with Orsino at his repeated advances, and this causes her to shove the responsibility of getting rid of Viola to Malvolio. This line, 'what you will', washes the speaker's hands of the task, be it because of inability to deal with it, being bored of dealing with it, or because the speaker wants to force the audience to confront the issue. In Olivia's case she is clearly worn-out with dealing with Orsino, but she uses the same phrase as Shakespeare utilizes as the title. In the case of the title however, Shakespeare is forcing us as the readers to confront the difficulties of the situation in the play. By doing so, he is inherently asking us to, as Bo pointed out, apply it to our own lives, because it is impossible to interpret the play 'as we will' without drawing parallels to our own lives; it would just not be personal enough to wrap our minds around.
Sorry for the length of that train of thought, but basically I like this line because it makes us think about and confront how we deal with complex or troublesome situations in our own lives, just as the title does.
I would set this story in the world of business and large corporations, because I think the deception and complex relationships fit well there. For example...
Orsino= company A
Viola = company c
Olivia- company B
Company c is going out of business, so it seeks help from company A. Company A is currently trying to merge with B, and likes c and sees it as an opportunity to show B what a good idea it would be to merge because A has good assets, like c. So c is shown off to B, which decides it likes c and wants it too, but doesn't want to merge with A because it had a bad experience working with other companies in the past. See, its just as complex.
I also picked the passage that Cara chose (the exchange between Olivia and Feste on pages 14 and 15). Feste comes before Olivia after mysteriously being absent from her court. Feste attempts to cheer Olivia up (as he used to do before his departure)by poking fun at his master: Olivia-"Take the fool away." Feste-"Do you not hear, fellows? Take away the lady." Feste's wit and humor allow him to prove Olivia's mourning to be illogical, and in some ways, make her feel better.
Like Ross, I also thought that the Hamptons could be a new Illyria. The nice beaches, wealthy home owners, wild parties, and "image" of the Hamptons seems like more than enough to provide a backdrop for Twelfth Night. However, I do think that the story would take place in a preppy, east coast boarding school (with Orsino being the richest kid but too afraid to talk to Olivia).
After reading Scene 5, I find it necessary to discuss lines 132-4: "Some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon 'em."
This is one of Shakespeare's most famous and most used lines but I don't think that many know that it is Shakespeare who said it first. I also think it is very interesting that this line is used very seriously out of the context of the play, when in the play it is from a joking letter written for comic relief. The word thrust is also very interesting because i have often heard it acted with a sexual subtext. Although this might not have been Shakespeare's intention, I think it is funny that such a serious quote was written as a joke.
I would set Twelfth Night in Illyria Preschool in present day. The children would obviously be playing "kings and queens" but as they are children they would believe it is real because of their vast imaginations. Orsino and Olivia would be the cool kids so they would be named Duke and Countess. The twins, Viola and Sebastian, would be playing that they were riding on a boat and it was shipwrecked. I think everything would pretty much make sense. I also think that making the characters children would further Shakespeare's "mocking" (as we talked about last class) of mankind. It would also make more real Orsino's and Olivia's childlike qualities.
1.5.276-278
“Methinks I feel this youth’s perfection
with an invisible and subtle stealth
to creep in at mine’s eyes. Well let it be.”
When I read this description of Olivia’s attraction at first sight, it really intrigued me. Shakespeare captures exactly how Olivia feels in a poetic way. Part of me believes that this is just a lengthy way of saying something else, but at the same time, he encompasses such detail and imagery in only three lines that it reminded me of my experience with that universal feeling. Even though she tried to remain detached, she couldn’t help but be snatched up by the lovebug.
Okay so Lindsay's idea is a alot like mine but I swear I came up with it before I read her post! It takes place on an elementary school playground, Orsino’s and Olivia’s courts are the respective “boys only” and “girls only” cliques, and Viola is the new kid on campus who doesn’t know what to do. Orsino can run faster than anyone in the school, and Olivia’s the prettiest girl, and they can’t actually confront each other because they’re too nervous. It’s not perfect (i.e. Toby’s drunkenness) but I jut thought it’s an interesting connection, especially because some of the characters tend to behave like children. Even Viola could have an easier time disguising herself because nobody’s been through puberty yet.
Ok, So I'm going to be original here and talk about Feste's intelligence.
1.5.59-64 (the same lines Cara talked about, and for many of the same reasons).
I think that this exchange is just an indicator of a greater trend - that is, Feste's gift for wordplay and logic. It seems to me that Shakespeare may be putting his OWN opinions on the situation into the play by way of Feste. His natural wit, and especially the ease with which he uses puns, seem like it is Shakespeare himself talking, and not one of his characters. Also, as Mary was talking about in class last time, Feste doesn't ever really get in on the action. He only comments on it, much like an observer laughing at the "playground antics" of Orsino, Olivia and certainly Sir Toby.
I chose to set my version of Twelfth Night in (you guessed it!) a greaser town in the 50s. Imagine that Duke is a hotshot twentysomething with a posse of leather jacket-wearing, hair-slicked-straight-back punks. His "palace" would be the bar he frequents, Olivia would be the quiet girl-next-door type that he wants VERY badly (think Footloose), and Viola/Sebastian could easily have crashed their car in a nearby river or even ditch and been separated when the Captain took one of them from the wreckage. And Sirs Toby and Andrew? Well, drunken revelry would be no kinds of out of place. The metaphor may not be perfect (like AJ's), but I think it works well enough that the play could go on, and I think modern interpretations of classics are the easiest for people of my generation to understand.
My Version of The twelfth Night would be set off the coast of Ancient Italy. I would put it around the late 1600's. Orsino would live in a huge castle, but yet he still finds himself extremely lonely at times. Olivia lives in a very busy palace but she never desires the attention that she is given.
Viola crashes her ship along the coast of Italy who then finds Orsino's palace.
I would set this in Ancient Italy if I could. Maybe Florence.
Act 1 Scene 5 Lines 130-136, where Malvolio is telling Olivia about how Viola/Cesario refuses to leave and knows that Olivia is lying about being sick and/or asleep. I was very confused after reading this because I couldn't imagine how Viola would know this. Is he just guessing and using it as a strategy to get Olivia to see him, or does he actually have some unknown "foreknowledge", as Malvolio puts it.
I imagined the play taking place in Ancient Greece, partly because I have a hard time seeing a play written centuries ago taking place in any form of the current day setting. I thought Greece would be a good location since it is surrounded by water, so it would be probable that a ship could be blown off course. It could take place in Athens, with Orsino and Olivia in different noble families that don't necessarily get along. Viola and Sebastian could be from the opposite side of Greece, possibly from another city-state such as Thebes or Corinth, and Viola's previous possibility of a marriage could have been in the interest of an alliance between city-states. Viola's idea to dress as a man could be because women had little to no power in ancient Greece and there was a great deal of misogyny back then. Also, I took Greek Studies last semester, so I see ancient Greek civilization in many situations.
I liked Viola’s passage from lines 198-201.
"The rudeness that hath appeared in me have I learned from my entertainment. What I am, and what I would, are as secret as maidenhead: to your ears, divinity; to any other’s, profanation.”
In the moment, Viola was explaining how her love message was a private matter only for Olivia’s ears. However, I like how the phrase “what I am, and what I would, are as secret as maidenhead” allude to her disguise, true identity, and love for Orsino – all of which are secrets that should not be told to random people, like the message of Orsino’s love for Olivia.
Also, Michael I really like your catch about “what you will.” I definitely did not see that in the text myself.
As for the setting, I am taking the idea that I think someone joked about in class: MA. Viola and Sebastian are siblings new to the Bay Area, and both must transfer into high school mid-freshmen year. Viola chooses MA and Sebastian chooses Branson (or University). Viola is quite the tomboy, and befriends Captain, who is a member of Orsino’s posse, on the first day of school. Once introduced, Orsino can’t quite figure out if Viola is a boy or a girl but doesn’t want to awk-out the transfer already, so he pushes the detail aside and befriends the androgynous newbie. While grabbing snack in the caf, Orsino notices his love-of-the-moment, Olivia, and points her out to Viola. He then decides to send her to ask Olivia if she likes Orsino back. Viola agrees to the plan to ensure she will have friends. However, after their conversation on the cushy chairs in the library Olivia also comes to befriend (or more than befriend) the kind transfer. Sir Toby and Sir Andrew would be other students, and Feste could be one of the spirit captains.
Silly? Yes. But, all in all there are true parallels: both Twelfth Night and MA are very melodramatic (come on, you know it) and hilarious from an outside perspective.
Eric S.
My favorite part of Act 1 Scene 5 is in lines 28-32 when Feste is talking to Olivia.
Festes explanation of wit really intrigues me, "those wits that think they have thee, do very oft prove fools: and I that am sure I lack thee, may pass for a wise man". Okay, so Feste says he has wit, yet the wit he has passes him for a wise man as opposed to a foolish man. Obviously neither Maria or Olivia view Feste as a "wise man", on the contrary, they view Feste as the other type of wits(that Feste does not identify with), the "fools". I also just love how Feste invents a scholarly sounding authority in order to appear as a wise man; "For what says Quinapalus? Better a witty fool than foolish wit". Through these lines Feste is quick to blow up his ego by completely lying to Olivia. This last quote does not even make sense, therefore Olivia pops Feste's ego bubble, defines him as a fool, and Feste is forced to leave.
I think the 12th Night could be set in present Beverly Hills. There are many fake people in Beverly Hills, therefore Viola fits the role perfectly. Also Olivia would be the rich blonde girl with an excess amount of botox carrying around her chihuahua named Maria. Obviously the wealth projected so far in the 12th Night would make a good fit for the setting of Beverly Hills, however come on, Sir Toby fits perfectly in the rich kid roaming around drinking all day. Yes this is stereotyping the people of Beverly Hills, however most of the characters in the 12th Night do fit these stereotypes perfectly.
Act 1 Scene 5 Lines 60-62
I thought that this dialogue between Feste and Olivia was interesting. First it covers the theme we discussed during class of comedic relief in the play. Feste reminds me of a fool, who makes a everything, serious or not, into a joke. Also Feste shows us a different and obscure side of
Olivia. As a mourner i would of thought that she would of been insulted by Feste's comment of her brothers soul going to hell. Yet she does the opposite and laughs off the joke.
This also gives insight to the relationship between Feste and other characters. How dealing with Feste is just dealing with a fool. You just play along and don't take anything he says seriously. Comedic relief
As for the setting for 12th night, I would place do some place with elegance and romantic history. France is probably the country i would have to go with. Specifically Burgundy, France. The reason why i would choose this is because of the architecture style of the city. It's very old with medieval like homes and villages. The city also had many parks and forests that scream romanticism, although the play isn't about romance (fully).
So I'm going completely to the unpopular part of the scene, the Olivia and Viola convo. I love pretty much everything about this part of the scene, but I love the speech Viola makes to Olivia b/n 248-256 (of course; it's the most cliche thing to like in 12th Night) the most. I love the word choice like "babbling gossip", "reverberate hills", "loyal cantons of contemned love", and even "willow cabin". Willow trees are so fragile (and have the sad "weeping willow" connotation) and I love the l sound in "willow" contrasting with the hard b sound in "cabin".
I also love how witty the two women are with each other. Between 205 and 215, Olivia counter's Viola's proclamations of Orsino's love with the same force she probably would any other suitor, but when Viola can answer her back and be as, if not more, witty as Olivia herself is, Olivia is forced to step back eventually. I think Viola's mastery with words is what makes Olivia fall in love with her, and what keeps her in high favor at Orsino's court.
Finally, this is so small, but I love Olivia's "Item" sentence. I think it's the greatest way to let her anger and frustration at people only complimenting her on her beauty.
This Twelfth Night setting idea is SUPER wacky, and may not work on the stage very well, but here goes. I think it could be set in modern times, with all (except Antonio perhaps) characters in their teenage years. The main aspect of teenage/modern culture I would be using is the internet and social networking websites. If only connecting to the themes of identity in the play, the internet is a breeding ground for false identities. I had a weird idea that Orsino could post on a forum or as his facebook status something like "oh man, hung up on Olivia. I need some bro advice", causing Viola to pretend to be a boy to help out/talk to her crush. They turn out to have a lot in common, etc etc, and he eventually asks her to talk to Olivia for him (via instant messenger perhaps or in real life). Um, yeah. That's where I'm at.
A couple lines that stood out to me were Viola's lines from 244-257: "If I did love you in my master's frame...In your denial I would find no sense, I would not understand it" Basically Viola was saying that because Orsino's wants Olivia so badly, he can't understand not having her. I liked that idea, because I felt like Shakespeare was revealing this part of human nature, how if we want something badly enough, we can't see life without it. I also liked these lines, because they reveal Orsino's motivation for continuing to woo Olivia. The lines justify his actions and the actions of many of the other characters. Throughout the play, characters do completely irrational things for love, which to the audience seems ridiculous and comedic, but to the characters it wouldn't make sense for them not to do it.
this is midori by the way. i realize i'm signed in to my brothers gmail account
I would set my play in France in the 1700’s. I was imaging the play set in a society that celebrated excess, like during the reign of Marie Antoinette and Louis XVI. Orsino, Olivia, and Sir Toby would be sucked into that culture as members of the upper class. Viola would be a foreigner and would be more rational.
What I thought was best was the exchange between Feste and Olivia regarding religion on page 15 from lines 49 through 64. Here, Shakespeare is quite cleaver in that he provokes a thoughtful question that challenges the established concepts of religion, yet introduces the idea through a fool so as to avoid trouble with the powerful church in England. The climax comes when Feste remarks: "The more fool, madonna, to mourn for your brother's soul, being in heaven. Take away the fool gentlemen". Like many of Shakespeare's plays, the "fool" is auctually the smartest person in the play. And far more intelligent than some of the other "high status" characters, such as Agueface and Orcino, as is shown by his wise perceptions of others, and his quick thinking while creating his plays on words. While most of the main players are: "lovesick", it is the low status characters who appear in the most control. Later in the play, when Malvolio is tricked into thinking that Olivia is in love with him, his status is changed from a terror of the house, to a weak scared man, through plays upon his pride and his greed. Shakespeare uses comedy and "fools" to make astute social commentary on the age.
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