What causes Shylock’s rage at the end of Act 2: Antonio as a competitor or the loss of Jessica?
18 comments:
midori
said...
I think Shylock is so outraged at the end of Act 2, because of the loss of his ducats and the fact that they were stolen by his daughter. While it might seem like Shylock is upset that he has lost Jessica, I think he's only concerned with her because of her connection to his money. Shylock doesn't known that Jessica stole his money, but he assumes she did. I feel like a better father would have first assumed that his daughter was kidnapped along with his money or something like that rather than assume the worst of her.
maybe I missed something, but I don't see how Antonio has suddenly become a competitor?
The thing that caught my attention about Shylock's language near the end of Act Two was the repitious use of Jessica's name. By using her name over and over again, it is suggested that Shylock is trying to lower her status and devalue what he had just lost. In Scene 5 he says, "I am bid forth to supper, Jessica." Shylock could have just as easily left out the Jessica, everyone knew who he was talking to, but by adding it to the end, he immidiately lowers her status.
I don't think Shylock is necessarily mad that he lost Jessica, but rather mad that he lost something. especially because he lost something/someone to Antonio. Shylock, as seen through his dealings with money, is used to having all of the cards, and it is therefore it is surprising when he isn't in control of the entire situation.
I agree with Midori. The last line we are given from Shylock is "Justice! find the girl! She hath the stones upon her, and the ducats!"
The language of this line implies Shylock wants to find his daughter to take back what has been stolen, not simply just to have his child back. It makes sense that he would be horrified since his wealth was the basis of what made him a respected money-lender. Also, he yells "Fled with a Christian!" earlier, so he knows Jessica has not only taken much of his fortune, but she has brought it into Christian hands - which is the worst possible outcome from Shylock's religious viewpoint.
I do also agree with Midori in that I don't see the connection of Shylock's misfortune and competition with Antonio. It makes sense that if Shylock couldn't lend much money any more, Antonio might get more business. But, this seems like a stretch since I am sure there were many money-lenders in Venice of both religions.
I think the loss of Jessica was what caused all of Shylocks rage at the end of this act. So far throughout the play, Shylock has been relatively subtle about his hatred for Antonio, and even treated him respectfully when they made their deal at the beginning. Even if he has been planning since they first made their bet to cut out a pound of Antonio's flesh, he has managed to keep his temper under control. It took the loss of his daughter to really set him off. Shylock's been humiliated by Antonio and been treated cruelly by him as well. On top of this, his daughter chose to leave him for a Christian. Shylock is resentful to all Christians because of the way he has been treated; also part of the reason this caused his rant about Antonio.
To Midori- I might be misunderstanding but I think what "Antonio as a competitor" means is shown in Shylock's rage about him in scene 9. He says that Antonio is "a bankrupt, a prodigal who dare scarce show his head on the Rialto, a beggar that was used to come so smug upon the mart." He is resentful for Antonio being conceited in the market in the past, and there's probably some previous competition between them as merchants. He lists in his next line everything that it is all because he is a Jew. This suggests some Christian versus Jewish competition as well.
It definitely seems like Shylock is enraged about Jessica running away and robbing him of his ducats. Not only does she abandon him with a large sum of money, but also for a Christian, which will probably further agitate the Christian/Jew relationship of the play. The entire final scene, however, shows Shylock’s hatred for Christians, through both his rage at Jessica and Antonio. I believe Shakespeare is foreshadowing that Shylock will be particularly ruthless towards any Christian now, particularly Antonio, for Jessica’s actions. There’s a chance that Shylock even blames Antonio for his daughter’s disappearance, perhaps out of spite.
It’s also interesting that Shakespeare unfolds this action through Salanio and Salarino. I don’t understand why he didn’t do two shorter scenes depicting what actually happened rather than have these two minor characters converse about it.
I definitely think Shylock is outraged at the end of Act 2. Shylock is furious about the fact that she ran of with his ducats, but similar to what everyone else has said that her being a christian reinforces the whole Christian/Jew dispute. Shylock is trying to demean Jessica with the fact that he just keeps repeating her name. The fact that his daughter took his money ran off of it displayed that even regardless of family Christians will be Christians. I think that Shakespeare is trying to show that Shylock will start to take no pity on any Christians regardless of what they say. I can see this becoming a problem later on in the book. In regards to Antonio the only connection I would make would be for Shylock to blame him for what has happened and in return making him the competitor?
I believe that this anger has two very clear roots one being the obvious; his daughter stole a lot of his prized possessions and that she "fled with a Christian." I believe that these actions combined have put Shylock into a truly terrible wrath which will not go away until avenged in some sort. Furthermore, As we have noted, Shylock has a deep seeded hatred of Christians and the action of his daughter being stolen away from Launcelot would be unimaginable for Shylock. Furthermore, because this old servant is regarded so poorly by Shylock himself, the fact that his own daughter has fallen in love with this despicable character would again fuel this terrible rage.
I agree with so much of the above! I think that Shylock's rage is caused by both Antonio as a competitor and the loss of Jessica. I believe this is so because Jessica's loss, something that would make him sad to begin with, is also aiding Antonio as a competitor because of the money she stole. Shylock lost not only his daughter but also some of his advantage over Antonio, two feelings of sadness and frustration that combine to produce a raging Shylock.
Like Grace I agree with pretty much everything that's been said. However, I think that while Shylock is angry about losing Jessica and the ducats, I think he is more enraged about having been duped. From what we know of him he is spit on and hated, but he still retains his ego by being smart and, in his mind, somewhat better than everyone else.
Because Jessica, one of his own, betrayed him, with a Christian no less, he is being undermined as well as being the victim of a robbery. Any sympathy we had for Shylock has just gone flying out the window because of his selfishness and obsession with his goods, but knowing Shakespeare he'll make us want to feel sorry for Shylock fairly soon...
I think that it is mostly the loss of Jessica that enrages Shylock at the end of the act. Not only has he lost a fair bit of his fortune of ducats, but he has now lost his only daughter to a Christian, which in his eyes would be one of the worst things that could happen to her. I agree with what Midori said about Shylock being a better father if he had not assumed the worst of Portia, but this made me wonder if Shylock knew that Jessica was such an unloyal daughter. Maybe something happened that we as readers did not witness that let Shylock know of Jessica's true feelings for him and for being Jewish. That might also give another explanation as to why he wanted her locked up in the house away from any distractions that could push her even farther away from him. I think it is also interesting how Shylock expresses his rage for the loss of her daughter: "And jewels, two stones, two rich and precious stones, stolen by my daughter!" He seems to mostly be angry that Jessica stole his riches than the fact that she ran away. With his next line, it is also apparent that Shylock wants to find Jessica merely to exact justice for her thievery, not to have his daughter back.
Shylock is thrown into a fit of rage over the loss of his daughter Jessica (and the ducats she stole from him). After learning of her abandonment, Shylock damns her, something that must be no easy feat for a parent. Interestingly, Shylock does not seem to have any other relationship except for with Jessica (i.e. no brother, sister, wife, etc). Now, Shylock has been abandoned with nothing but his money and job as a merchant to make his life worth living. Furthermore, Jessica leaves Shylock for a Christian. Shylock, who loathes Christians, is extremely upset at this act of betrayal. Like AJ mentioned, this tension between the two religions is furthered in this scene. However, Shylock's rage is not only contained to the loss of Jessica. Shylock wishes death upon her daughter after learning that she stole his ducats: "I would my daughter were dead at my foot." I believe that Shakespeare makes Shylock's rage for losing his ducats almost equal to the rage he feels as a result of losing his daughter in order to reinforce the fact that Shylock is meant to be a character who only really cares about his money (which could be a reason why Shylock has very few relationships in the play). The combination of the loss of his daughter to a Christian and the loss of his ducats creates Shylock's intense rage.
I agree with many people above that Shylock is enraged because Jessica ran away with his ducats, stones, and most importantly a Christian. Shylock knows that once Jessica completely falls for Lorenzo; she will never be able to obtain her purity as being Jewish. Shylock eventually can make back his ducats and stones, but he knows that if Jessica converts to Christianity, nothing will be able to be reversed. Also, the end of Act 2 shows that not only do the Christians dislike the Jews, but the Jews equally, if not more have intense hatred for the Christians. Shylock's rant also illustrates that he is a horrible father only caring about material objects instead of the well-being of his daughter.
I agree completely with Midori (and many others) - it seems that Shakespeare is only having Shylock react to the loss of his money. This may have served to have made him an easier villain to hate in Elizabethan times; to make him motivated by greed rather than love is a very interesting character choice. I think his valuing of material goods over family also reinforces the fact that, as a non-Christian, he obviously has Satan-tinged morals.
My feeling is that Shylock's rage comes more from the loss of his possessions than anything else. The interweaving of his cries justice, his money, and his daughter, seem to equate the value of Jessica and the ducats. It is unclear as to which he wants retrieved more, and clearly is more worried about getting payback than getting his daughter back. As he also yells about her fleeing with a Christian, it seems he is more offended by Jessica's leaving than upset by it. This lack of concern for his own flesh and blood is the perfect way to tag Shylock as a very unpleasant person and says volumes about his character.
I think that Shylock is more upset about the loss of Jessica and her betrayal of him than about his money. he charges a great deal of interest, and so money isn't exactly a problem for him, but the fact that Jessica stole it is a bigger deal to him.
I disagree with Amalie. I think that Shylock is far more concerned with the money. As Salanio quotes, "find the girl! She hath the stones upon her, and the ducats!" He wants to find Jessica but not because he has lost her because he has lost money and his reputation because she has run off with a Christian. However, I do think he cares for her as the first part of his rant is mostly about her but then it gets very focused on the money.
I think what causes Shylocks rage at the end of the play is his daughter leaving with his ducats. That in itself makes him angry but I think that religion causes Shylock to be outraged. I'm not that familiar with the exact values of the Christian faith but i would guess that having a strong family is important. So the fact that she left him leaves him vulnerable to subjection. I believe that the jews will look down to shylock and not respect him. This also leaves him powerless.
I just have one question: where in the text specifically does antonio become a competitor. i didn't see that as an apparent change in the book
I think that Shylock is angry at a combination of his daughter leaving him, and losing his money. I agree that Shylock is trying to disvalue his daughter in view of what he just lost. His daughter was called his "one saving grace", Shylock is so embarrassed that Jessica left him that he is trying to draw his attention away from her and put more importance on the ducats. His daughter has hurt Shylock so much, that he is, in a way, trying to convince himself as to the lower value of the thing that he just lost. I think he really is more angry about Jessica than his ducats, but is trying to hide his grief about her by talking about the ducats. One can see that Shylock is only really trying to hide his grief about his daughter in his anger about the ducats in the say he mixes up what he is saying when talking about the ducats and keeps coming back to Jessica; or when talking about his daughter, realizes what he's saying, and changes to talk about the ducats: "Justice! find the girl! She hath the stones upon her, and the ducats" (Act 2 scene 8)
SPOILER ALERT
Another reason why I believe that Shylock is more concerned about his daughter than his ducats is that it is in keeping from his character. At the end of the play, Shylock refuses 3 times the ducats he lent to Antonio so that he can continue his personal vendetta, even though he would have no monetary gain that. Clearly, Shylock is a very emotional man, and it is more in character for him to be more emotional about his daughter than his ducats.
18 comments:
I think Shylock is so outraged at the end of Act 2, because of the loss of his ducats and the fact that they were stolen by his daughter. While it might seem like Shylock is upset that he has lost Jessica, I think he's only concerned with her because of her connection to his money. Shylock doesn't known that Jessica stole his money, but he assumes she did. I feel like a better father would have first assumed that his daughter was kidnapped along with his money or something like that rather than assume the worst of her.
maybe I missed something, but I don't see how Antonio has suddenly become a competitor?
The thing that caught my attention about Shylock's language near the end of Act Two was the repitious use of Jessica's name. By using her name over and over again, it is suggested that Shylock is trying to lower her status and devalue what he had just lost. In Scene 5 he says, "I am bid forth to supper, Jessica." Shylock could have just as easily left out the Jessica, everyone knew who he was talking to, but by adding it to the end, he immidiately lowers her status.
I don't think Shylock is necessarily mad that he lost Jessica, but rather mad that he lost something. especially because he lost something/someone to Antonio. Shylock, as seen through his dealings with money, is used to having all of the cards, and it is therefore it is surprising when he isn't in control of the entire situation.
I agree with Midori. The last line we are given from Shylock is "Justice! find the girl! She hath the stones upon her, and the ducats!"
The language of this line implies Shylock wants to find his daughter to take back what has been stolen, not simply just to have his child back. It makes sense that he would be horrified since his wealth was the basis of what made him a respected money-lender. Also, he yells "Fled with a Christian!" earlier, so he knows Jessica has not only taken much of his fortune, but she has brought it into Christian hands - which is the worst possible outcome from Shylock's religious viewpoint.
I do also agree with Midori in that I don't see the connection of Shylock's misfortune and competition with Antonio. It makes sense that if Shylock couldn't lend much money any more, Antonio might get more business. But, this seems like a stretch since I am sure there were many money-lenders in Venice of both religions.
I think the loss of Jessica was what caused all of Shylocks rage at the end of this act. So far throughout the play, Shylock has been relatively subtle about his hatred for Antonio, and even treated him respectfully when they made their deal at the beginning. Even if he has been planning since they first made their bet to cut out a pound of Antonio's flesh, he has managed to keep his temper under control. It took the loss of his daughter to really set him off. Shylock's been humiliated by Antonio and been treated cruelly by him as well. On top of this, his daughter chose to leave him for a Christian. Shylock is resentful to all Christians because of the way he has been treated; also part of the reason this caused his rant about Antonio.
To Midori- I might be misunderstanding but I think what "Antonio as a competitor" means is shown in Shylock's rage about him in scene 9. He says that Antonio is "a bankrupt, a prodigal who dare scarce show his head on the Rialto, a beggar that was used to come so smug upon the mart."
He is resentful for Antonio being conceited in the market in the past, and there's probably some previous competition between them as merchants.
He lists in his next line everything that it is all because he is a Jew. This suggests some Christian versus Jewish competition as well.
It definitely seems like Shylock is enraged about Jessica running away and robbing him of his ducats. Not only does she abandon him with a large sum of money, but also for a Christian, which will probably further agitate the Christian/Jew relationship of the play. The entire final scene, however, shows Shylock’s hatred for Christians, through both his rage at Jessica and Antonio. I believe Shakespeare is foreshadowing that Shylock will be particularly ruthless towards any Christian now, particularly Antonio, for Jessica’s actions. There’s a chance that Shylock even blames Antonio for his daughter’s disappearance, perhaps out of spite.
It’s also interesting that Shakespeare unfolds this action through Salanio and Salarino. I don’t understand why he didn’t do two shorter scenes depicting what actually happened rather than have these two minor characters converse about it.
I definitely think Shylock is outraged at the end of Act 2. Shylock is furious about the fact that she ran of with his ducats, but similar to what everyone else has said that her being a christian reinforces the whole Christian/Jew dispute. Shylock is trying to demean Jessica with the fact that he just keeps repeating her name. The fact that his daughter took his money ran off of it displayed that even regardless of family Christians will be Christians. I think that Shakespeare is trying to show that Shylock will start to take no pity on any Christians regardless of what they say. I can see this becoming a problem later on in the book. In regards to Antonio the only connection I would make would be for Shylock to blame him for what has happened and in return making him the competitor?
I believe that this anger has two very clear roots one being the obvious; his daughter stole a lot of his prized possessions and that she "fled with a Christian." I believe that these actions combined have put Shylock into a truly terrible wrath which will not go away until avenged in some sort. Furthermore, As we have noted, Shylock has a deep seeded hatred of Christians and the action of his daughter being stolen away from Launcelot would be unimaginable for Shylock. Furthermore, because this old servant is regarded so poorly by Shylock himself, the fact that his own daughter has fallen in love with this despicable character would again fuel this terrible rage.
I agree with so much of the above!
I think that Shylock's rage is caused by both Antonio as a competitor and the loss of Jessica. I believe this is so because Jessica's loss, something that would make him sad to begin with, is also aiding Antonio as a competitor because of the money she stole. Shylock lost not only his daughter but also some of his advantage over Antonio, two feelings of sadness and frustration that combine to produce a raging Shylock.
Like Grace I agree with pretty much everything that's been said. However, I think that while Shylock is angry about losing Jessica and the ducats, I think he is more enraged about having been duped. From what we know of him he is spit on and hated, but he still retains his ego by being smart and, in his mind, somewhat better than everyone else.
Because Jessica, one of his own, betrayed him, with a Christian no less, he is being undermined as well as being the victim of a robbery. Any sympathy we had for Shylock has just gone flying out the window because of his selfishness and obsession with his goods, but knowing Shakespeare he'll make us want to feel sorry for Shylock fairly soon...
I think that it is mostly the loss of Jessica that enrages Shylock at the end of the act. Not only has he lost a fair bit of his fortune of ducats, but he has now lost his only daughter to a Christian, which in his eyes would be one of the worst things that could happen to her. I agree with what Midori said about Shylock being a better father if he had not assumed the worst of Portia, but this made me wonder if Shylock knew that Jessica was such an unloyal daughter. Maybe something happened that we as readers did not witness that let Shylock know of Jessica's true feelings for him and for being Jewish. That might also give another explanation as to why he wanted her locked up in the house away from any distractions that could push her even farther away from him.
I think it is also interesting how Shylock expresses his rage for the loss of her daughter: "And jewels, two stones, two rich and precious stones, stolen by my daughter!" He seems to mostly be angry that Jessica stole his riches than the fact that she ran away. With his next line, it is also apparent that Shylock wants to find Jessica merely to exact justice for her thievery, not to have his daughter back.
Shylock is thrown into a fit of rage over the loss of his daughter Jessica (and the ducats she stole from him). After learning of her abandonment, Shylock damns her, something that must be no easy feat for a parent. Interestingly, Shylock does not seem to have any other relationship except for with Jessica (i.e. no brother, sister, wife, etc). Now, Shylock has been abandoned with nothing but his money and job as a merchant to make his life worth living. Furthermore, Jessica leaves Shylock for a Christian. Shylock, who loathes Christians, is extremely upset at this act of betrayal. Like AJ mentioned, this tension between the two religions is furthered in this scene. However, Shylock's rage is not only contained to the loss of Jessica. Shylock wishes death upon her daughter after learning that she stole his ducats: "I would my daughter were dead at my foot." I believe that Shakespeare makes Shylock's rage for losing his ducats almost equal to the rage he feels as a result of losing his daughter in order to reinforce the fact that Shylock is meant to be a character who only really cares about his money (which could be a reason why Shylock has very few relationships in the play). The combination of the loss of his daughter to a Christian and the loss of his ducats creates Shylock's intense rage.
I agree with many people above that Shylock is enraged because Jessica ran away with his ducats, stones, and most importantly a Christian. Shylock knows that once Jessica completely falls for Lorenzo; she will never be able to obtain her purity as being Jewish. Shylock eventually can make back his ducats and stones, but he knows that if Jessica converts to Christianity, nothing will be able to be reversed. Also, the end of Act 2 shows that not only do the Christians dislike the Jews, but the Jews equally, if not more have intense hatred for the Christians. Shylock's rant also illustrates that he is a horrible father only caring about material objects instead of the well-being of his daughter.
I agree completely with Midori (and many others) - it seems that Shakespeare is only having Shylock react to the loss of his money. This may have served to have made him an easier villain to hate in Elizabethan times; to make him motivated by greed rather than love is a very interesting character choice. I think his valuing of material goods over family also reinforces the fact that, as a non-Christian, he obviously has Satan-tinged morals.
My feeling is that Shylock's rage comes more from the loss of his possessions than anything else. The interweaving of his cries justice, his money, and his daughter, seem to equate the value of Jessica and the ducats. It is unclear as to which he wants retrieved more, and clearly is more worried about getting payback than getting his daughter back. As he also yells about her fleeing with a Christian, it seems he is more offended by Jessica's leaving than upset by it. This lack of concern for his own flesh and blood is the perfect way to tag Shylock as a very unpleasant person and says volumes about his character.
I think that Shylock is more upset about the loss of Jessica and her betrayal of him than about his money. he charges a great deal of interest, and so money isn't exactly a problem for him, but the fact that Jessica stole it is a bigger deal to him.
I disagree with Amalie. I think that Shylock is far more concerned with the money. As Salanio quotes, "find the girl! She hath the stones upon her, and the ducats!" He wants to find Jessica but not because he has lost her because he has lost money and his reputation because she has run off with a Christian. However, I do think he cares for her as the first part of his rant is mostly about her but then it gets very focused on the money.
I think what causes Shylocks rage at the end of the play is his daughter leaving with his ducats. That in itself makes him angry but I think that religion causes Shylock to be outraged. I'm not that familiar with the exact values of the Christian faith but i would guess that having a strong family is important. So the fact that she left him leaves him vulnerable to subjection. I believe that the jews will look down to shylock and not respect him. This also leaves him powerless.
I just have one question: where in the text specifically does antonio become a competitor. i didn't see that as an apparent change in the book
Daniel-
I think that Shylock is angry at a combination of his daughter leaving him, and losing his money. I agree that Shylock is trying to disvalue his daughter in view of what he just lost. His daughter was called his "one saving grace", Shylock is so embarrassed that Jessica left him that he is trying to draw his attention away from her and put more importance on the ducats. His daughter has hurt Shylock so much, that he is, in a way, trying to convince himself as to the lower value of the thing that he just lost. I think he really is more angry about Jessica than his ducats, but is trying to hide his grief about her by talking about the ducats. One can see that Shylock is only really trying to hide his grief about his daughter in his anger about the ducats in the say he mixes up what he is saying when talking about the ducats and keeps coming back to Jessica; or when talking about his daughter, realizes what he's saying, and changes to talk about the ducats: "Justice! find the girl! She hath the stones upon her, and the ducats" (Act 2 scene 8)
SPOILER ALERT
Another reason why I believe that Shylock is more concerned about his daughter than his ducats is that it is in keeping from his character. At the end of the play, Shylock refuses 3 times the ducats he lent to Antonio so that he can continue his personal vendetta, even though he would have no monetary gain that. Clearly, Shylock is a very emotional man, and it is more in character for him to be more emotional about his daughter than his ducats.
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