1. Is Bassanio the type of man Portia’s father would have chosen?
2. Some critics say in order for Bassanio to join the heterosexual community of the play, he must first get rid of Antonio. What do you think? Keep in mind time period and contemporary cultural norms.
18 comments:
1) I think that we don't actually know enough about Portia's father to say for sure. While we know that he is "controlling her from beyond the grave", there must be a reason why Portia is so loyal to him. These two things we know about him make me think he is the sort of father who is protective, but wants Portia to be happy. I think he would approve of Bassiano if he made Portia happy, though he might not approve of her spending all the money on him.
2)I think that it is all interpretation whether Bassiano himself is gay. We know for sure that Antonio is into him, but Bassiano does not have any specific text saying one way or the other. I don't think he has to cut ties with Antonio at all; he can be as friendly as whatever.
Since Portia's father put so much trust into his casket system, I think it is possible that he would be thrilled with any many who chose the correct casket. It's also possible that he put Portia's picture in the least likely casket assuming it would never be chosen. Like Amalie said, I don't think we can say for sure since we just don't know enough about him.
I agree with Amalie that we don't know for sure whether or not Bassanio is gay. I think that since homosexuality (I'm assuming) was very hushed up at the time, many people might not suspect that Antonio is in love with Bassanio. If Bassanio has only platonic feelings for his friend, there is no reason why he can't get married and join the "heterosexual community of the play".
1) As the casket system is the physical manifestation of her father's presence and power, I think that because Bassanio "beat the system" that Portia's father would approve of him. Portia speaks incredibly highly of Bassanio throughout the scenes, so I doubt that a father who is so incredibly protective of his daughter would not approve of her being with someone she is obviously attracted too, especially because he passed the casket test.
2) Regardless of whether Bassanio is gay or not, I don't think he necessarily has to "get rid" of Antonio. In a culture and time period portrayed (perhaps rather ridiculously) with male friends kissing seductively in a bedroom, I think Bassanio is basically free to do what he wishes.
1. I agree with Amalie that it is hard to know for sure if Portia's father would have chosen Bassanio had he been living. However, since he set up a system that he believed would find Portia a fitting husband, assuming he was pleased with the system upon his death, he would probably approve of Bassanio. Also, perhaps he figured most rich men would lean towards gold and silver, the more precious stones. It seemed to me that maybe he wanted to get Portia a more humble husband just like Bassanio (maybe minus the Antonio pound of flesh baggage though).
2. I do not think that he has to get rid of Antonio, however he will likely make Bassanio's relationship with Portia a bit more difficult. I think Bassanio and Antonio's relationship would have had to be secretive to begin with, so it will be hard to have much drama among the greater community and culture. I think it may turn out to be an emotional battle, but I don't think that Bassanio will physically have to get rid of Antonio.
1) Bassanio is certainly the kind of man Portia’s late father would want for his daughter because he managed to pass the test. Clearly, the test was thought out so that only someone who could reason well and come to the conclusion that Portia’s picture lies in the lead box. If her father is so strict about who she marries even from the grave, he would definitely devise a test that would accurately produce a good husband. The quality Bassanio has is the quality her father wants. The only questionable area is in his economic situation, but I don’t think that would pose a big problem.
2) I don’t think this claim could ever really be true. Even if Antonio was rid of, if Bassanio was truly homosexual he could easily fall in love with another person. I also think that Bassanio’s romantic love for Portia is much stronger than any potential romantic love for Antonio. Even if the choice was presented him, I think he’d still choose Portia. Antonio also does not seem to want to sabotage Portia’s and Bassanio’s relationship; he lends Bassanio the money and does everything in his power to ensure that he succeeds. Whatever romantic tension there is between the two men, I believe they will not act upon it because it is culturally unacceptable during the era.
1. I agree that Bassanio is the man Portias father would have chosen. Portia has more than enough money for the 2 of them and is willing to pay off his debts many times over. He is also smart enough to beat the casket system so Portia's father could have no complaints, especially when the rich princes and dukes all failed to pass a somewhat simple test.
2. I don't think Bassanio needs to get rid of Antonio. I think he used him for money for a little bit and played on Antonio's love for him. However now he is feeling guilty because Antonio is basically screwed and he knows it's partially his fault. He also just got engaged to a beautiful, rich young woman so his reputation isn't looking too shabby right now.
1. I think Portia's father would approve of Bassanio; like everyone mentioned he passed the casket challenge. Ross also mentioned how highly he is regarded before he comes to visit. Nerissa and Portia talk about him so completely differently from the other suitors he must have some seriously good personality traits that I am sure Portia's father would notice as well. And, I think Portia's father would only devise the casket challenge to ensure Portia would have a worthy husband, and thus be happy in the end. AJ mentioned Bassanio's fiscal situation is unfortunate (which would not be ideal in Portia's father's eyes) but I think the fact that he picked the right casket and holds the key to Portia's heart is more important.
2. I don't think Bassanio has to get rid of Antonio to join the "heterosexual community" simply because he is doing that through his engagement to Portia. Depending on what happens, Bassanio may get rid of Antonio before he and Portia actually get married - and then that will be another story.
I also agree with the others that Bassanio is the type of man that Portia's father would have chosen. Bassanio past the test, therefore Portia's father would approve. Like others said, Portia's father obviously did not want Portia to marry a rich man, or he would have placed her portrait in the gold casket. Portia's dad wanted her to marry someone that was not necessarily rich, but made her happy. Although Bassanio is in debt; he has carries a great amount of intelligence that Portia's father was looking for in a man in order to pass the casket test.
I do not think that in order for Bassanio to join the heterosexual community, he must first get rid of Antonio. In my opinion, Bassanio is bi-sexual. Bassanio has more love for Portia than Antonio, thus he marries her. If Bassanio was deeply in love with Antonio, then he would not have married Portia. I believe that Bassanio still thinks about Antonio, however, his love for Portia is too strong for Antonio penetrate. Portia is very wealthy and Antonio is in terrible debt, therefore why would Bassanio ever want to leave Portia?
I would have to somewhat agree that Bassanio is the type of man that Portia's fater would have chosen. He did in fact past the casket system which Portia's Dad had so much trust in. I don't know if Portia's dad would approve of Bassanio's debt situation.I think that since Bassanio has debt, he would be more inclined to take money from Portia. I think that would make Bassanio's true love for portia debatable.
I think that the relation ship between Bassanio and Antonio is apparent although subtle. I'm not sure and correct me if i'm wrong but i belive that the cultural norms of the elizabethan epoch looked down upon homosexuality. So In this case Bassanio would in a sense have to get rid of Antonio in order for the communtiy to not question Bassanio's heterosexuality.
1) I agree full heartedly with Ross, and in my mind, I feel that Bassanio would be an acceptable suitor in the minds of Portia's seemingly very protective father. My decision is based on the fact that he beat the casket system which was devised in order to weed out any 'bad' suitors. The gold and the silver caskets acted as a form of testing the suitors true self and if these caskets were chosen it would display the unfortunate man's care for monetary luxuries rather than the happiness of Portia. This ingenious test was trumped by Bassanio and in my mind, I think that his father would recognize Bassanio's genuine personality and accept him as a fair suitor for his fine Portia.
2) If Bassanio was gay, the era in which he lived in would have forced him to abandon his loving affection for Antonio and commit to Portia. In the late 16th century homosexuality was commonly banded and any form of cheating was viewed as despicable and so by having a male lover when he is supposed to be loyal and committed to Portia would be completely out of the question
1) I do not think portias father wpuld choose Bassanio as a choice. Because of his precision and his idea to use the casket system I do not think he would use Bassanio as a choice. He chose those people for a reason and we know that he is controlling. As well as his desire to control Portia I just do not think he would find Bassanio as a proper candidate for his daughter. He does want Portia to be happy overall, but I simply believe that for some odd reason he would not find Bassanio fit for Portia.
2) I do not think he has to cut ties with Antonio because in the book it shows signs of Antonia being gay for him, but not the other way. there are many ways for him to prove that he is heterosexual without having to cut ties with Antonio. I think the relationship they share is not a mutual homo sexual one.
1) Like most of the commenters, I believe that Bassanio is the type of man that Portia's father would have chosen for her. Portia's father designed the system so that only the "perfect" man could pass the test. Portia's father believed that he could tell a man from his choice between a gold casket, a silver casket, and a lead casket. Like Bo said, the gold casket represents a man who is materialistic while a silver casket represents a "pale" and "common" man. Therefore, the only logical choice would be the lead casket. However, another interesting idea is that Portia's father would be forced to uphold the contract (even if he did not approve of Bassanio) that he has held to so many other men in order to maintain his image as a fair man.
2) I do not think that Bassanio must get rid of Antonio in order to join the heterosexual community. Like Eric J said, there are many other ways that Bassanio could prove to the heterosexual community that he is indeed heterosexual. I also think that his love for Portia does trump his love for Antonio.
Daniel
There are aspects of Bassanio that would make him a man Portia's father would like Portia to marry, and there are also aspects of his character would seem to be inclined to dislike. Although Portia clearly loves Bassanio, her love for another was obviously not too important to her father since Portia could not choose herself whom she wanted to marry. Portia's father wanted someone who would mary Portia because they loved her: "[the correct chest] will, no dobut, never be choosen by any rightly, but one who shall rightly love."(page 8 act 1 scene 2) Bassanio does not "rightly love" Portia, he is clearly in love with Antonio. While I think that Antonio is not a barrier for Bassino's relationship with Portia, their the whole approach Bassanio has taken towards Portia shows that he is not deeply in love with Portia. On the other hand, Bassanio obviously won't be cruel to Portia, and he does choose the correct chest by seeing beyond the chest's looks. The very fact that Bassanio is capable of loving Antonio shows that he looks beyond the surface and cultural norms.
1) As with many who have posted before me, I do think that Bassanio is the type of man Portia's father would have chosen. First of all, he passed the 'test' that was set forth for the suiters and that in and of itself is an indication that he is good enough. Secondly, Portia is very clearly head-over-heels for him, so if her father was still alive at this point it would be unlikely that he would deny his adored daughter such a strong passion. Also, Bassanio is clearly very loyal, shown by his devotion to Antonio, and I think this loyalty to loved ones would also put him in good favor with the father.
2) I, again agreeing with many previous posters, do not think that Antonio must be gotten rid of. I do not think that a man-to-man friendship, or whatever it is they have, would stand in the way of his love for Portia or her love for him. Indeed, as of our current position in the play, Portia seems to approve of the friendship. What will happen next? Nobody knows....lets read on.
1. Like others have said, we obviously have no way of knowing what her father would have wanted. But I think since he made up the casket system himself he would have to be happy with anyone who choose the right casket. Also, the fact that Portia likes him so much is also a plus though I don't think her father would be happy with just anyone that Portia liked - hence the need for the casket system.
2. Any homosexual undertones either weren't a big deal or weren't thought of as sexual. Basically for Shakespeare to write their relationship so obviously full of love it must not have been controversial for the audience. Therefore Bassanio can still have his relationship with Antonio and set out to woo Portia free of any baggage. So I don't think he needs to get rid of Antonio yet he does leave him in Venice while he goes to Belmont.
1. Except for his estate (he really isn't rich), Bassanio is exactly the man Portia's father would have chosen. The point of the three caskets was to look beyond the surface; by choosing the leaden one, Bassanio was implying that no matter how Portia looked, he would always love her for her self. Though he may seem overbearing, in hindsight it seems that Portia's father only had her best interests at heart, and was looking for a man who would love her and not her looks and money.
2. I think that Bassanio will have to cut any blatant sexual ties with Antonio, as much for fear of losing his soul as anything else. He swore to love Portia and only Portia. I don't think he will rescind upon that. I think that, in the future, Antonio will still love Bassanio, and Bassanio will still love Antonio, but perhaps in a more father/son fashion than the one that is implied in the two stagings we've seen.
1. I agree with Amalie; we really don't know enough about Protia's to know what kind of man he would have chosen for his daughter were he alive. Obviously, he thought that marriage was extremely important for his daughter, or he would not have gone through so much trouble to make sure she was eventually married. Still, because he set up a test of character for each suitor, he must have had some idea of the kind of man that would choose the leas box, so maybe he did have some idea as to the kind of man he wanted for Portia.
2. I am still not convinced that Bassanio has homosexual feelings for Antonio, even though Antonio surely has feelings for Bassanio. He obviously loves Portia more that Antonio since he went through so much trouble to marry her. I just think that Bassanio loves Antonio as a friend and only as a friend.
1) Since Bassanio choose the right casket, I think he is the kind of man Portia's dad would have chosen. He hopefully created this casket system for a reason. He could have outlined other rules for Portia's future husband, like not being in debt or not having a homosexual side relationship, but he didn't. He created this system. still, as some people have mentioned, we don't know that much about Portia's father, so all we have to go on, as to what he would've wanted, is this casket system.
2) I guess I would say yes. In order to be completely sure that Bassanio is a part of the heterosexual community, he would have to get rid of Antonio. Given the lack of acceptance of homosexuality during Shakespeare's time period, Bassanio has to be heterosexual. Throughout the play, Shakespeare has created character that in some way comply with the kind of ideal characters an Elizabethan audience would want. The audience would want Bassanio and Portia to be happily married.
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