Please respond to these two questions:
1. Why has Feste not been involved in the plot against Malvolio? Maria said she would involve him.
2. Olivia says that love, like guilt, shows itself clearly in a person's face and behavior. "Love's night is noon" (3.1.144). Do you agree? Does love always show itself clearly? Can any of your deepest feelings remain private to you and hidden from others?
18 comments:
1. Feste has proved himself throughout the play as someone who pokes fun and out-wits virtually everyone; he doesn't choose sides and he doesn't choose favorites. For the plan to work smoothly, everyone has to be firmly against Malvolio and on Maria/Sir Toby/Sir Andrew's side - something Feste is not. Maria probably realizes Feste is smarter than them (especially the knuckleheads) and wouldn't want him adding any new trickery to the plan that is beyond them. Without Feste, Maria can also act as the queen bee and leader of the plot.
2. In this play "love's night is noon." Everyone's feelings are apparent to someone (if not other characters than at least the audience). This makes sense, because there obviously would be no point in having a love triangle in a play if the audience didn't know everyone loved each other. In real life, I do not think this statement is always true. For some people it is, for some people it is not. It also depends greatly on the situation. I know I fail epically at hiding my feelings when I like someone - my emotions tend to play themselves out sub-consciously (my friends can definitely attest to this). However, I have plenty of friends who have clued me in to a long-time crush, yet the new information comes as a surprise to me (and I am a pretty perceptive person). Personally, I find other emotions easier to hide, but this would differ person to person as well.
1) Feste, throughout the play, has established his role as the indifferent, nonchalant one man peanut gallery. Therefore, instead of taking sides or being part of any of the plots, Feste must be neutral. I agree with what Sarah said, but in addition, I also think that because it is a possibility that Feste is Shakespeare himself written into the play, Shakespeare would not want to ally "himself" with the knuckleheads and their plot.
2) I disagree with the statement that love always shows itself clearly. While I do think that love itself is always manifested whether we like it or not, it is not always in the clearest of ways. As an example, the many dialogues between Viola and Orsino showcase the fact that, even if Viola is clearly revealing the passion of her love for him, to Orsino, her words were not nearly clear enough. In response to the final question, I do not think that any feelings can truly remain private. Freudian slips do happen, and feelings, at least in my experience, always end up being spoken.
1) I agree with both Ross and Sarah’s points about Feste. I think Feste has more fun observing and making fun of Maria, Sir Toby, and Sir Andrew’s plan of humiliating Malvolio than actually doing it himself. It is also a daring plot, and if he got caught, there’s a chance that Olivia would fire him. She already considers him a fool, and it would be dangerous to push her any further.
2) I definitely believe that love can be hidden from others. We have t remember that when Olivia makes this statement, she is under the firm belief that Cesario loves her because of the “contempt and anger of his lip”. She misinterprets Viola’s feelings completely. In general, many people disguise their feelings for someone very well. Orsino (probably) has absolutely no clue that Cesario loves him, but Viola disguises her love very well, and Orsino has no suspicion.
1) I thought of it in a different way than Sarah, Ross, and AJ, i.e. why did Shakespeare as a playwright decide this, rather than what is the characters' intentions about it. I think Shakespeare decided to not have Feste because he would be too funny and take away from the hilarity of Malvolio. Maria's intentions could be worry that Feste would expose them by talking too loudly or long, but I think Fabian was put there to be a good halfway marker between Toby and Andrew.
2)I agree with Sarah, that while in real life I think people can hide their emotions from others, but in the play they are quite obvious, if to no one else, then to the audience, as Sarah said. It is merely for plot purposes, of course, but this statement is exactly how far our suspension of disbelief as audience members must go. However often we ourselves hide our emotions or see others do the same, we have to believe that these people would just let them show for the purposes of the play. I also think that as a character, Olivia's love is particularly obvious, because she doesn't care to hide it. The two main men in her life just died, and she found a "guy" who is pretty awesome and, she thinks, told her this amazing stuff about how he feels about her. I think she feels like it's the right thing to do to lay it all out there.
1. I think that Shakespeare cast himself as Feste in this. Because Feste is very intelligent and witty, like Amelie said, he would take away from the more dumbed-down antics of Sir Toby, Andrew, and Malvolio. Also, Feste is now an observer and is free to mess with or help out with whatever side he wants to.
2. I think that there are many emotions that can be easily hid, but love is not one of them. Just walking around MA it's incredibly easy to see which couples are completely enamored with each other, and also who's crushing on who. Even if you can't bear to have anyone know who you love, if someone is watching you at the right moments it's impossible to keep it out of your face. In the first stages of love it makes you so happy that you literally cannot sit still or stop smiling. If things go badly, you are either pining over the lost love or cursing their name, both of which you cannot do stoically.
1) I agree with the above sentiments as to why Feste is left out of this plot. I also feel, however, that Feste's wittiness implies something more about him, and that is why he would not be a good fit for the plan. Despite his constant ribbing of the other characters, his teasing is always hidden and is never outright mean. He is witty, subtle, and sly, but his style is not malignant. He is smart enough to realize that while the plot may be amusing, it will end with very hurt feelings. Therefore, he does not partake, because his style is not to hurt people but to tease the situation.
2) The thing about feelings is that they are different in every person, and therefore manifest themselves differently for everyone. I think that love shows itself clearly IF you know what to look for. That is why, for instance, in Twelfth Night there is so much overlooked love; the characters who are unaware of it are not looking for the clues. We as audience members, however, know that there is something going on, so we know to look for the telltale signs of affection. So, I think it is possible to keep your feelings hidden, although it is very difficult. And once someone has even an inkling of what is going on, it becomes significantly harder to keep them hidden.
Throughout the play we have seen Feste as a person who uses his wit and intelligence to prove everyone in the book wrong. Everyone is against Malvolio, but the difference is that Feste is not on the same page of hatred. Feste is more intelligent that that whole pack and I do believe that Maria recognizes this and that is why she wants him to join in on their plan. Maria does know of Feste's capability of wooing the people he interacts with and i do believe that she thinks that could affect their plan in a negative manner. He has the capability to contribute to the plan, but to also mess it up at the same time.
I do not believe that Love is always apparent in one's face and behavior. In many cases one will be in Love, but the problem is that the other people aren't looking for it or paying attention to that person so it is not clear. Love can be an emotion to hide because if the other person does not expect it or is not looking for it they will never acknowledge it and that makes it easier to be kept secret. For example if i were to have feelings for a good friend of mine, but they always see me as a friend and they see every action i do as a friendly one then it is easy for me to keep my feelings a secret because they aren't looking for it. If people are not aware or they do not pay attention to people actions I do believe that it is possible to keep it a secret. As well as the fact that some peoples definitions of love are completely different.
1. I think that Feste is not involved in the plot against Malvolio because his lack of side-picking creates unpredictability. Due to his wit, if Feste was against Malvolio, Malvolio would indubitably be foiled. Perhaps he has some sort of chance that Feste will swing in to help him disguised in the form of mockery. If that is not the case, however, and he never does help Malvolio, his absence from he plot allows him to openly mock all involved members from both sides, and maybe manipulate the way everything turns out.
2. It is true that "Love's night is noon". Every character in this play, in his or her own way, spells out clearly the way he or she feels, for example Viola, Orsino, and Olivia. The display or their love is always very bold, yet in Viola's case, it is not always received and understood. So, while I believe that love is nearly impossible to hide, it is definitely sometimes ignored by the beloved and thus is not always realized. It is a struggle to keep emotions inside. While others don't always know the exact feeling, it is for the most part quite clear when someone is feeling anything strongly. The internal change is what is hard to disguise, not necessarily the feeling.
We talked in class a little about how Shakespeare might have been making a point about cruel jokes in his description of the Malvolio prank. Mary said that at the end, when Malvolio appears looking extremely pathetic and completely destroyed it can cause people to stop and think about what they previously were laughing at. I think Feste is not involved in the prank to sharpen the contrast between his own sense of humor, and that of Maria, Sir Toby and Sir Andrew. It's as if he's showing the audience humor that is carried out incorrectly, and correctly.
I agree with Emily that there is a lot of truth to the statement "love's night is noon". Though love, or even just an innocent crush can be well disguised, there are always signs of it. I've had few similar experiences to Sarah's, where I've been clued into a crush of a friend and been initially surprised. But the surprise has always been followed by flashbacks of very obvious clues that I either mildly picked up on, or overlooked and should have noticed. There's a completely different kind of energy around one who is crushing on, or in love with someone else in the vicinity. Like Emily said, it's easy to tell at MA which couples are completely enamored with each other. If somebody feels so different when they are around another person, no matter how good of an actor they are it is impossible to hide their feelings completely since it is such a strong emotion.
1. Feste is Olivia's jester, someone who is required to cheer her up by telling jokes or using his wit to poke fun at others. Feste has not assumed a larger role in the plot against Malvolio simply because the ploy is not his joke and he does not want to steal the spotlight from the others. Feste respects Maria and the knuckleheads and will wait behind the curtain until they need him.
2. Like most of the other posters, I too believe that love does not always show itself clearly. Olivia exhibits irony when she says that "love's night is noon." If love is clearly shown in a person's face or behavior, then she should be able to see that Viola is not in love with her. However, Olivia still pursues Viola, perhaps in the same way in which Orsino pursues Olivia. Shakespeare may have written this line in order to demonstrate how naive each of the characters are. The entire play is centered around a love triangle (between Orsino, Olivia, and Viola) perpetuated by obliviousness, yet Olivia believes she has figured it out.
1. It's very hard for me to answer this question because (spoiler alert!) I know Feste does become involved later. I find Feste to be the funniest character in the play, and Malvolio's situation to be the most absurd. Thus, I think Shakespeare is saving "the best for last." Feste's wit in the culmination, as opposed to the middle, of Malvolio's situation is a recipe for hilarity. From a playwright's perspective, having a very funny scene as the drama becomes more and more muddled, especially with the whole Viola-is-Sebastian-is-Viola thing, is key, and I think that Shakespeare is using the Feste-Malvolio scene for that purpose.
2. In the play, at least, it seems as though love's night is not noon. Viola is in love with Orsino, but he doesn't notice, even with the obscene amount of time he speands with her/him. I agree with this. I think that love can remain hidden; I think that people can pine away forever. That may be kind of depressing, but it does seem to make sense. Imagine that someone has secretly been in love with another for years. Their love would not seem apparent to the first person after some time because they would act "normally." That's not to say that I think that love will never show. I just don't think it always does.
1. In response to the first question I must agree with both Sarah and A.J. In my opinion, as as well as others, Feste is a neutral character who doesn't favor any particular side. It would be against Feste's own character to sink down to the moral levels of Sir Toby/Sir Andrew/Maria and plot against Malvolio. Furthermore, I believe that Feste has the intelligence to see beyond the immediate present and foresee any possible consequences. As we saw in the beginning of the play, Feste had to please and simultaneously amuse Olivia to get his old job back. In my mind, Feste has realized that he is on thin ice and I believe that he will not risk becoming jobless once again.
2. I believe that whether or not love can be hidden is completely dependent on the situation. The situation being whether or not it is in real life or on the stage. I agree with Michael when he in that love will show it self if you know what your looking for. Real life love, if intently sought after, can be found with relative ease. This is also true for the love that is exhibited by the characters in Twelfth Night. Although many of these character's are clueless towards who in reality loves them, the audience is able to filter the play and pluck out true love. The audience has a type or peripheral vision that allows us to decipher this emotion with relative ease.
I typically, unless you know me very well, can hide my deepest emotions from people. Emotions such as joy, anger, sadness, anxiety are all to often exhibited by me routinely. On the contrary to my skill at keeping emotions hidden in side of me, I am terrible at interpreting mixed emotions.
1. Feste has not been involved in Maria's plot against Malvolio because he is simply too witty. Maria knows this and does not want to be impaired if she informs Feste of her plan, and he goes and tells Malvolio. Maria wants to be the one in charge of the plot, without having someone like Feste to convince Sir Toby or Sir Andrew to act otherwise. Like everyone said, since Shakespeare wrote himself in as the character of Feste, if he were to take the sides of Maria, Sir Toby, and Sir Andrew it would project some prejudace that would take away from the authenticity of the 12th Night. Feste must remain neutral in order to please all the characters in the 12th Night. If Feste were to take Maria's side, he might displease Olivia who would then relieve Feste of his duties as her entertainer. Feste acts as the constant so far in the plot, where he is unchanged by the other characters and their actions. He is the "gossip king" and if he were to enter the plot against Malvolio, he would not be able to learn the the secrets of all of the characters.
2. I disagree with Olivia's statement that "loves night is noon". Olivia is incorrect because Olivia clearly has some form of love for Viola but she does not express it like Orsino does for Olivia. Olivia somewhat hides her love in order to create a love defense for if she were to be heartbroken. This is on the contrary to that of Orsino who clearly expresses his love for Olivia; therefore he has a significantly greater chance of becoming heartbroken since Olivia is grandly informed of Orsino's feelings for her. Of course one can keep their feelings, and hide it from others. This is the first line of defense to make sure the person does not become heartbroken. Then, when the person finds out that the other person he or she has feelings for has the same feelings as well, the wall lowers and the feelings are uncontrollably revealed. Like Kyle said, Shakespeare writes in the line for Olivia to contradict herself because if Olivia really believes this than she will obviously have realized that since Viola had not expressed any sentiment back to Olivia, she does not love her.
1. I see Feste as the one character that is a mere bystander to the main plot. He observes everything from a different perspective and, through his wit and clever words, he sometimes reveals his perspective to the characters, although they rarely understand him. He shows his unbiased opinion on each situation but to do that, he must remain a bystander and stay out of Maria's plot against Malvolio. Shakespeare is using the character of Feste to show a different side of the other characters that can only be seen by someone perceptive and completely uninvolved.
2. I do agree with Olivia's statement that love can be seen relatively easily from someone's actions. Whether we are attempting to hide our love or not, we show it somehow through our interactions with others, especially with the subject of our love. We also each show love in a unique way, which might not be very obvious or easily detected as someone else. Although we all show love, it is not always noticed by others. For example, when Viola speaks to Orsino, she practically professes her love for him, but he doesn't understand her hints at all. Sometimes you can get away with revealing your feelings through your actions and still remaining unknown to others.
In response to the 2nd part of the question, I think that deep feelings for someone are very difficult and sometimes painful to hide. If they really don't want their feelings to be revealed, most people find some other way to express themselves, but in the end, they can't hide it forever. True love isn't something that can be locked away and hidden easily.
I agree that with the above statements about Feste. I think that the reason why Feste doesn't go along with the plan ( at first) is because he's committed to olivia and Olivia only. I know that he makes jokes about the others but he has to remain in a neutral position in order to keep the balance in the house. I think that if Feste were to be restricted to the authority of someone else besides olivia, it will ruin his character in whole.
I agree with ross in saying that love is somewhat subtle and not always apparent. A prime example is the dialogues between antonio and sebastian. Both the audience and sebastian as a character can not identify the subtlties of love. Even if it were clear it's hard for others and sometimes easier. It really depends on the situation at hand
1. I agree with Tennessee, Feste does become involved later and I think that Shakespeare didn't involve him earlier to save the best for last. I also agree with Sarah and others that Feste should be neutral and that he makes fun of people conditions - by the time he gets involved in the plot he is simply making more fun out of Malvolio's situation. He is not the one to create misfortune but comment on it and make it funny.
2. I do agree with Olivia's statement. But like others have stated, people are very good at hiding their feeling and their are people like Orsino who are not very perceptive to even blatant displays. Either way, emotions are not always clear. However when Olivia says this I believe she is talking specifically about herself who, at the moment, cannot hide her love for Cesario.
Feste has not been involved, because his character is supposed to be an impartial commentator on the events going on around him. Unlike Sir Toby, Maria, and Sir Andrew, Feste does not have a personal grudge against Malvolio. Also I feel like the way they are going about tricking Malvolio isn't really Feste's style. When he insults people, he tends to do it straight to their face. Maria's plan involves a lot of deception and sneaking around.
I definitely think one's deepest feeling can be private and hidden from others. It all depends upon the person and who their trying to tell. As we've seen in the play, Viola's feelings have been concealed throughout the play, even when she after she has dropped major hints. Like Orsino, Olivia assumes her feelings and actions are the same as all lovers.
Daniel
Like Tennessee, i'm actually a bit confused about the first question. Feste does become involved in the plot against Malvolio, just later in the play. I understand the comments about how Feste is a commentator on the events, how he is an outside observer, and represents intelligence and reason in the play. I don't disagree with anyone on that front. But the fact that Feste does come in as Sir Topas later in the play. Maybe it's Shakespeare's way of fulfilling the audience's expectation that Feste would be involved, (as Maria had said), or maybe it is to give a bit more insight into his character and make him more human. Maybe it's even Shakespeare himself saying that he is willing to have a bit of fun too. I'm really not sure, but this would be a great topic to discuss in class.
I disagree with Olivia when she says that love, like guilt, shows itself clearly in a person's face and behavior. The entire plot of 12th Night, is people mistaking emotions for love and confusions and misrepresentations of people. Orcino can't see Viola's love, despite her leaving him clues. In contrast, Malvolio cannot see Olivia is not in-love with him, and Olivia herself cannot tell the difference between Sebastian and Viola and their very different feelings towards her at the end. Although love shows itself many ways, it is never really very clear in this play.
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